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Questions about ER and SWR

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Posts: 2
Topic starter
(@swk7907)
New Member
Joined: 5 years ago
[#153]

I recently discovered ERN.com and wish I found it years ago.  I would certainly have been more comfortable with my situation.  I’ve been quasi early retired for about four years when my old company closed and I decided to get out of the industry.  While I may eventually go back into the work force I am making sure to live such that my portfolio will last assuming I don’t go back to work.  I’m making my way through the SWR series and apologize if some of this is discussed and I just haven’t gotten to it yet.

Here are some questions I have that I always struggle with when reading ER posts:

  • How do people figure an expense amount now that will stay constant for 40-50 years when so much in life will change? My kids are currently 12 and 9 and while I can be confident in my family’s expenses for the next 3-5 years I have no idea what expenses will be like 20 years from now.  I’m not talking about healthcare costs but even just regular living expenses.  Is it realistic to assume that my expenses at 40 will be the same at 60 simply adjusted for inflation?
  • For future expected major one-time expenses (i.e. college costs, child wedding expenses, etc.) do people usually keep those amounts separate from their “retirement” portfolio?
  • Current SWR (S&P high and CAPE>30) for a 50 year horizon is about 3%. My annual expenses are roughly 2.2-2.4% of my portfolio.  Is there a good way in the spreadsheet to reinvest back the savings and see how it affects a future SWR? 
  • Regarding increasing your SWR to keep pace with inflation, I’ve always been of the opinion that the larger your expense budget is the less susceptible to inflation you are. This is clearly because you have far more luxuries in your budget which are easy to scale back if you need to.  Somebody with $40k of annual expenses will be more impacted by inflation than somebody with $250k of annual expenses.  Is this a fair way to look at things? 
  • Similar to the last question, it seems that the SWR is brought down significantly to bring the fail rate down to acceptably low levels (typically under 5% and definitely under 10%). That being said a much higher SWR will work 90%+ of the time.  Would it seem fair to assume the higher your annual expenses (and thus the higher your ability to cut expenses) the more able you are to start at a more aggressive SWR as you can reign expenses in more easily if necessary due to a rough market period?

I know some of these questions may fall into the realm of common sense but everything I read about early retirement deals with setting specific rules early on and sticking to them.  While I currently can withdraw 2.3% of my portfolio and likely sustain that indefinitely eventually the time will come where we may want to buy a vacation home, join a country club or something similar.  I’m trying to get a handle on how to approach early retirement when so many of the factors change.  Who would have thought four years ago with markets at their highs that we would see the bull market we have experienced?  It is humorous to read the SWR blog posts from late 2016 that talk about CAPE levels of 28 and seeing the comments about market risk at such high levels only to now see Dow 31,000. 

Thanks so much for taking the time to read this (assuming you made it this far) and thanks to ERN for putting together such a comprehensive site for us early retirees.

 


3 Replies
Posts: 349
(@earlyretirementnowcom)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago

All good points:

"How do people figure an expense amount now that will stay constant for 40-50 years when so much in life will change? "

I don't. I factor in larger expenses for HC in the future. I expect to help out our daughter with college/grad school/home downpayment/weedding/etc. You can and should factor that into the "supplemental cash flow" table in the Google sheet I created.

" Is there a good way in the spreadsheet to reinvest back the savings and see how it affects a future SWR? "

You could simulate a case study (in my Google Sheet) and see how such a low WR will impact your portfolio during some of the bad historical episodes. 9/1929, 12/1968, 12/1972.

" the larger your expense budget is the less susceptible to inflation you are."

I second that. 

"Would it seem fair to assume the higher your annual expenses (and thus the higher your ability to cut expenses) the more able you are to start at a more aggressive SWR as you can reign expenses in more easily if necessary due to a rough market period?"

In other words, with a very generous initial budget, it's much easier to be flexible, i.e., cut down expenses. I certainly think so.

" I’m trying to get a handle on how to approach early retirement when so many of the factors change. "

You will have to redo your SWR analysis from time to time. And if you're ahead of schedule, go ahead and raise your budget and/or buy a vacation home.


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Posts: 2
Topic starter
(@swk7907)
New Member
Joined: 5 years ago

Thanks for the response. 

It's interesting regarding variation of expenses and while nominally they feel very large but when viewed as a SWR percentage they're not as big as they seem.  I've been tracking expenses via MS Money, YNAB and Quicken over the years since I graduated from college. 

I decided to compare what has changed and then divided those expenses by my current portfolio value.  I exclude Fed and State tax payments (since they cause huge variance in expenses based on irregular income streams) and my expense variance is attached.  There are some outliers such as 2008 when we bought a ton of new furnishings for our new house and 2020 due to COVID however my main takeaway is that my SWR didn't really change much other than major life events such as getting married in 2007, furnishing our new home in 2008 and then my second kid being born in late 2011.

I guess what this tells me is that your last point holds supreme which is that your SWR needs to be revisited (and potentially changed) as new life events occur and expenses change and how that jives with your portfolio changes.

Thanks again for all of this insight.  I'm not sure if you are open to it but I'd recommend adding a forum section for people's personal situations and the questions that they have.  I know there are other forums that cater to that but guessing you would prefer the traffic to stay here.  

 


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1 Reply
(@earlyretirementnowcom)
Joined: 10 years ago

Member
Posts: 349

@swk7907 Very cool! That's a very long history of expenses. I use Quicken and have my complete spending history since 2000.

Your spending history shows that it's best to use multi-year averages as the baseline. I'd also suggest planning for big-ticket items ahead of time, i.e., college expenses, car replacement, car/home repairs, home renovations, etc. 

I'd recommend adding a forum section for people's personal situations and the questions that they have. 

I think for questions like this people will just use the General Discussion or SWR forum groups. 🙂


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